Monday, May 16, 2011

Ryu vs Fei Long

Fei Long:

This is one of the hardest and least favorite match up for me that I personally think it’s a 7:3 match up in Fei Long’s favor. This is a match up where in a footsie game you lose and character that is awfully hard to zone. When I was at Canada Cup, Mago himself also told me that he thinks it’s a 7:3 match up in Fei Long’s favor and Daigo also told me that he thinks it is Ryu’s hardest match up, but he didn’t give me an exact number. Anyways, here is what I know about this match up….

Ground Game:

Far Range: I guess I can say this is the only safe range where you can throw Hadokens without thinking. Meter management is extremely important in this match up especially having full Super meter can be extremely threatening to Fei Long. Whenever you have a chance where you are safe, don’t hesitate to build some meter by throwing fireballs, whiffing jab SRK or doing air tatsu.

Mid Range: The best thing you can do at this range is to block and punish whiffs and mistakes made by your opponent or sometimes random level 2 focus attack can give you some surprises. On top of that, Fei Long does not have a really good answer to neutral jump attacks @ this range. I usually do a lot of random neutral jump MK in case I dodged a random Rekka so that I can immediately punish with a combo.

Close Range: Fei Long has a very long safe poke string @ close range, so don’t mash on SRK after you block two low shorts otherwise it’s going to be blocked or whiff by the time Fei Long ends his poke strings.  Fei Long also has really good frame traps to mix up with his throw and even his command throw, therefore sometimes instead of throw tech, mashing on low jab can get you out of that bad situation.


Rekka: Standing jab, SRK or early low forward.

Ex Version: Same as normal version.

Flame Kick: Ex SRK (MP SRK seems to trade)

Ex Version: Ex SRK

Chicken Wing: Any standing attack (including any version of SRK) and can also counter last hit with focus. 

Ex Version: Same as normal version

Command Throw: Any attack

Ex Version: Any version of SRK, low short and ultra.

Against Ultra 1: Fei Long’s Ultra 1 does go through projectiles, doesn’t have great range, but however, it still can go through in between Ryu’s max distance low forward into fireball. Therefore, think twice before throwing HADOKEN!

Against Ultra 2: DON’T ATTACK HIM ON WAKE UP! You can empty jump after a knock down and mix up with block or throw.

On Ryu’s Wake Up:

Getting knocked down by Fei Long can be terrifying to deal with because of his varieties of mix up games including safe jumps, cross ups, frame traps, over head and even command throw. I will not mention about simple wake up games like cross ups, over head because it’s not hard to see/react to.

Some command mix ups would be his standing strong/Flame kick frame traps into combo mixing up with throws/command throws and low short into Rekka combo. This simple but yet dangerous mix up is extremely effective especially when you are trapped in the corner and the short list below explains why.

  • ·         Mashing on any normals would lose to standing strong/Flame kick/Ex Command throw
  • ·         Crouch tech loses to frame traps but beats command throws
  • ·         Stand tech loses to low short into Rekka combo and frame traps but beats normal command throw.
  • ·         Not pressing anything would lose to normal throws/command throws
  • ·         Back dashing loses to Option Select Rekka/Ultra.

Sometimes you can determine you decision by how much meters they have and how much life they have. For example, they would most likely do a flame kick frame traps when they have 2 meters. Another example…hmm…when Fei Long is in a comfortable life lead he would probably use standing strong frame trap to keep applying pressure and not wasting his meter incase he needs to make a comeback.   Speaking about come back, Fei Long would probably try to command throw you because it’s the most risky thing to do but a highest reward due to the option of landing a high damaging combo.

Besides his strong mix ups, Fei Long also has safe jumps against Ryu. I am sure about one of the safe jumps but not too sure about the other one, however I will write down both for you guys.

  • ·         Back throw, walk back a little, whiff standing jab and jump MP. This is the setup that I am 100% it’s a safe jump on Ryu.
  • ·         This one I am not too sure, but whenever Mago does it on Daigo, he never uppercuts….and I think it only works in the corner. Knocked down by Rekka, (ONLY IF RYU QUICK WAKE UP) jump short.
  • ·         Not sure about this one as well…knocked down by sweep then cross up with jump MK.

Mind games and Option Select:

Luckily, Fei Long has a 5f (if I am not mistaken) uppercut (Flame Kick), therefore in return, Ryu can also safe jump against him. However, Ryu cannot do safe jump OS sweep like most of the characters due to Fei Long’s “free out of jail move” chicken wing, therefore what suck is that on wake up you still have to guess which is somewhat not  in your favor and I will explain why.

First, inputting OS sweep makes chicken wing whiffs but Ryu does not have enough time to punish because of his slow recovery after a sweep. It is the safest thing to do but you lose a chance to do damage…so what should Ryu do?

Fei Long’s chicken wing works like Rufus’ Ex Messiah kick, which means, doing low jab can make it whiff and you have enough time to punish. Alright…I know this might sound a little too complicated, I am going to make a list like I did in several guides to make things easier.

·         Safe jump in attack OS low jab makes Chicken wing whiffs and you can punish by walking towards Fei Long and sweep. Other options you can do are HK tatsu once it whiffs, or a bigger punishes which is harder to do, ULTRA 1! However, this OS fails to punish Fei Long’s wake up back dash

·         On the ground leaves you not much choice of OS….low jab to make Chicken wing whiffs and also be able to punish, yet you have to worry about his Flame Kick and also cannot counter his back dash. OS sweep also makes CW whiffs, though you can counter Fei Long’s back dash, but fail to punish his CW and on top of that you still have to worry about his Flame kick.

·         You can also do OS low fierce which beats CW clean, but again, loses to Flame kick and whiffs on back dashes PLUS Fei Long can punish your whiffed low fierce with Rekka. (ARGGGGG!!!!)

Anyways, Ryu does have other strengths allowing him to land damage to this Kung Fu dude! After a knock down, cross up jump LK can be pretty ambiguous, and on top of that, it beats Fei Long’s Flame Kick and sometimes his Chicken Wing (sometimes it misses). Other than jump short, cross up Tatsu, as always it’s a very good and safe tool to use as an attack.

Things to be aware of:

Fei Long’s Rekka is way too far and fast to react to. In this match, you have to be very patient and always have yourself in blocking mode incase of random Rekkas. Sometimes whiffing random standing jabs or shorts can give you some surprise counters to Rekka without much risk. Punishing Fei Long’s whiffed normals is one of the main key to win in this match up. Besides his normals, also pay careful attention to the Rekkas you blocked, because some of them you might be able to punish with fierce SRK and of course, SUPER (YOU NEED SUPER METER IN THIS MATCH UP). When you are analyzing Fei Long’s Rekka, if he has half of his arm on Ryu (I don’t really know how to express this, lol) then it is reversal fierce SRK punishable.

There is one more PRETTY ANONYING trick about Rekka, and it’s HIS delayed second hit and third hit of Rekka. Most of the time you should just keep blocking after you blocked the first Rekka unless you are sure it is punishable with a SRK. If under any circumstances, you blocked Fei Long's second Rekka, don't hesitate to mash HP SRK for a 100% safe reversal.

Applying fireball pressure is important and its usually the best way to "force" Fei Long to get in with his Ex CW. I would say at almost full screen, always been prepared to counter Fei Long's CW...though it seems fast, but to be honest, there's more than enough time for you to react to it. However, I do understand the fact that some people do have slow reactions....therefore another way to counter this move is to lower your body with low forward ( right before it hits you (This is much easier because you have your character already in blocking mode, all you do is press MK) . This allows you to make EX Chicken Wing whiffs plus having enough time to punish Fei Long.

I am done about this guide and to remind you guys, I don’t know this match up too well and I always lose to this character. Again, let me know if I am missing anything so I can learn this match up better myself, and leave your comments below or to my facebook page.

Ah…one more thing I forgot to mention, majority of the Fei Longs would do an instant Rekka after they back dash and a lot of them would do an instant jab Rekka after a tech throw. Cheers~


  1. Great guide, but to a near impossible match up. Would Evil Ryu have a better chance? Excluding his whack health. What's your new main?

  2. @Ducky i find it even harder as Evil Ryu. I can get stun in like 2 combos then i die...Evil Ryu's normals are too slow imo...
    I haven't decide on a main yet.

  3. Ryu's Solar plexus strike is good at medium range. It can actually counter-hit rekkas.
    Jumping on fei is lot more risky because of QCB uppercut command which is easier than shoryuken to execute, and ex flame kick does 200 pts damage which makes fei scarier.
    This match-up used to be 6-4 in Ryu's favor during vanilla. But I don't know how the F it turned the other way around.

  4. Great post air. Just found your blog after seeing your Canada cup vids. Really great info here. Thanks!

  5. If you timed it right (REALLY STRICT), a crouching medium/strong can beat rekka on start up.

  6. Air you didnt mention the godlike c.Jab that us fei players like to exploit. you are right abt the flame kick its 5 frames. by the way ex rekka blows through fireball. also fei's super goes through fireball (if i remember correctly).

    Fei Frame Traps.
    c.MP cMP
    c.MP s.FP
    c.LP Flame kick (medium)

    Corner Offence
    safe jumps
    empty jump into c.LK into ex tenshin

    His AA
    mk flame kick
    standing round house
    close Fierce
    close round house

  7. @Tanquocho maybe jab would work better wouldn't it?

    @Ugonna great info on the frame traps! Hmm...don't think the AA part of Fei is needed because it's not a guide on how to use Fei Long :D

  8. Well it's good to know his anti-air range so you can safe jump, right? And you forgot to mention that neutral jump can give you a big reward if you guess right against a rekka.

  9. Thanks a lot for another awesome guide Air, I've got a question though about blocked fireballs:

    "Throwing fireball might be risky because it is NOT safe on block because it is punishable by reversal Rekka unless it is max range "

    Do you mean a reversal Rekka alone or a cancelled normal into Rekka if the fireball was done deep(i.e cr.jab xx Rekka)? Because Ryu is -6 on block with his normal fireballs and the fastest Rekka has 7 frames of startup, so if you didn't press any buttons or tried to jump out, you should be able to block a purely reversal Rekka.

    Am I missing something here?

  10. @MetallicA

    even at that it swings momentum to fei long, if you jump he will hit you (jump has startup frames) anyway its not safe.

    I main Fei and most Ryu players I play seems to jump from mid range and I easily pluck them off the air with sHK thats why i included it.

    well fei is a difficult matchup, but if you knock him down you have the advantage. if you ask me its a 6-4 in fei favor.

    the only thing is that if you turtle fei long players (me included) we tend to snap lol, fei is pure blood offence.

    If you lose alot to fei I suggest counter picking with Guile, Akuma or Balrog, lol!

  11. @Metallica ahhh...sometimes i get hit by his rekka even though i am blocking...@@..

    @Ugonna yeah i understand, not disagreeing with you abt the AA, i play fei long myself sometimes and every guide i don't recommend the ryu player to jump, therefore doesn't really matter to put it in the guide of what moves Fei Long uses as AA. That's what i meant, sorry if it made you misunderstood.
    Hm...yeah, i think i will have to start counter-picking~~

    and i will update the new info i got from you in the guide once i am actually at home n not on my iphone :(

  12. also close Strong into standing Fierce is a frame trap too though its not safe you wont see it often. Mago also uses cLK flame kick fadc.

    how's the sushie coming lol!

  13. if it was 7:3 in ssf4 then this is like 8:2 in AE with some ryu nerfs and fei buffs?

  14. @Air

    Are you sure you weren't using Ken when that happened :P? Because Ken's fireball is -7 on block and can totally be punished by jab/ex Rekka.

    Or maybe that happened to you in AE if there are any changes to Rekka/fireball there, I didn't play it and didn't see any AE frame data yet so I wouldn't know.

  15. Something that's not mentioned is how hard it is to react to chicken wing when it's performed outside of cr.MK range. That shit is SO HARD to react to.

    Something that's recommended is to wait for Fei to walk forward, then jump. It's harder for him to anti-air this way because he's not sitting on b or d/b.

    Another tidbit: If you block Fei's cr.HP, do a reversal EX fireball. He can NEVER jump over it in this situation; you always have time to DP.

    Yet another thing: do s.LP to catch those random rekkas. If you see one hit, plink the sweep and get that knockdown. It's risky, but knockdowns are the only way Ryu can really get consistent damage on Fei.

  16. Nice writeup air.Just wondering will you be doing similar matchup analysis for AE with whoever you choose to main?

  17. If they whiff a Rekka in your face you can react with c.hp xx tatsu since the hitbox for c.hp and rekka are high and extend from their bodies. Even light rekka is too slow but you do have to be quick. I find it very reliable though and it gets you back out of the corner and into the centre of the stage. Just have to make them think its ok to do a rekka.

  18. I actully love to play against Feilong with Ryu and I don't feel the match-up is THAT bad (or maybe i'm not playing super good feilongs). Focus attacks is good against Fei. It kinda ruins his footsies game and there's not much he can do to punish that. Any 2nd rekka on block is a guaranteed sweep (minus the delayed 3rd one). If you're used to it, and you can recogniez those, the 1st MP and HP rekkas are actually hella unsafe and leads to free sweeps as well. U can easily SRK, CW on reaction as well. Well there's a lot to say actually

  19. i am not too sure about the reversal rekka actually since everybody been telling me that the frame data doesn't match...and yes i don't know THAT much about frame data and once i have time i will test it out.
    @StarNab maybe coz i used to play mago a lot back in Japan and he prob took out Fei's protential fully to be realistic enough to show me that it is a 7:3 match up. And thx for those info that is missing in my guide, i am going to edit my guide asap so if any of u read this comment, read my guide once again :D

  20. some things I figured out after a while with playing

    1. You cannot safejump Ryu because of 3 frame shoryuken.

    2. Fei now has a nasty setup the is very hard to react to, in the corner if he hits you with a blocked level 2 focus attack fadc and you keep on blocking he will go for cJab cancel into ex tenshin and there is nothing you can do about it if you are not expecting it.

    3. Also 2nd hit of ex rekka is -1 on block but +1 if its a delayed rekka

    4. Ryu cannot affort to sweep recklessly against fei because fei can counter with jab rekka. (sweep -14 on block i think and fei rekka is 7 frame start up)